Astrology Forums

HEALING, MEDITATION AND SPIRITUALITY => Philosophy => Topic started by: Virinchi on May 05, 2009, 06:20:45 PM

Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Virinchi on May 05, 2009, 06:20:45 PM
This is fact.

Whether we pray to god or not, whether we perform remedies like wearing gemstones, crystal healing, reiki, chanting mantras etc, karma will give us what it has to, or rather what we deserve.
Even consulting an astrologer, palmist,pyschic/tarot reader will happen only when karma decides.
According to astrology, the ruling planets (moon sign owner, day owner, ascedent owner, owner of constellation in which moon is placed) match to the ruling planets at your time of birth.
This rule of Hora Astrology itself proves that karma takes its toll when it has to.
You will only know when you have to know. Before that you will meet people who will misguide you. Again this is controlled by karma.
God acts as an agent through planets,humans around us, etc, giving us results of our karma.

This is not to discourage anyone trying to perform remedies to control their problems, but to emphasize that remedies are like umbrellas trying to protect us from karmic influences like sun,rain etc.
But if our bad karma is more stronger, it can cause heavy wind which can take away our umbrella.
Everything depends on balancing equations of karma. If good karma is more than bad karma, we enjoy comforts and vice versa.

Only in exceptional cases god decides to overtake karmic influences for his/her devotee but it will happen for thos who have reached peaks in devotion and have completely surrendered to god.
Rest all have to pass through karma and its effects.
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: DCP on May 06, 2009, 05:24:58 PM
if GOD is just and agent to give us results of karma thru planets, they why worship him?
why not just do good karma and get good results ?

whay GOd in between
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Samantha on May 07, 2009, 10:34:14 AM
good question
i always had a thought that GOD is a cheater
he\'s just made us slaves to this karma and expecting us to worship to get relief
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Shalu on August 06, 2009, 10:34:41 AM
i think thats why swami vivekananda said it right : you are not sinner, its God who is sinner and a traitor
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: JayTee on August 06, 2009, 03:01:03 PM
its a slavery chain
if you want to escape from it you need god, else just karma will result in subsequent life and results
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Sharmila on August 06, 2009, 03:34:15 PM
 i believe in \"No problem is so big and difficult that it can\'t be blamed on somebody else.\"

maybe god believe in -- \"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.\"

:smilegrin:
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Star Dust on August 28, 2009, 09:31:18 PM
God usually wont interfere in our present karma.
he\'ll watch us go thru them
only in few rare cases of highest form of devoties has god interfered in their excess negative karma and relieved them
so worship ! to reach that stage where u can bring him down for u
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: JayTee on September 03, 2009, 05:21:17 PM
whatever comes first or last, its imp. to do karma without any attachment or thought about its result
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Virinchi on September 04, 2009, 11:03:58 PM
it was said by many, in so many generations by so many incarnations but still people chose to live in ignorance
if people were smart enough god doesnt have needed so many incarnations to tell same thing again and again
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Ravi Varma on September 26, 2009, 11:57:28 PM
many people will not believe but actually worshipping god will not clear your bad karma
prayers and remedies are only for our satisfaction
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Anoo on October 13, 2009, 10:54:03 AM
i think it works but only the bad effects are minimalised . not totally erased.
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Ranjana on December 03, 2009, 10:26:00 AM
did you feel minimised effects?
how do you know how much were actual effects and how much they were minimised
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Vaani on April 02, 2010, 05:29:28 PM
that will remain a secret which elders say we got to discover
i dont understand what to achieve by discovering it
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Seetaram on April 03, 2010, 07:06:16 PM
for people who feel its slavery, then its slavery
for those who remain unattached, its a playground

yadbhavam tadbhavathi
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: OMkaar on July 14, 2010, 06:27:25 PM
good post but i dont believe that those exceptional cases actually exist in this world we see
they may be living somewhere far away from materialistic world
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Samantha on July 15, 2010, 11:43:57 AM
yes
most of the times we find astrological reasons after an event happens
thats because human factor involved in astrology
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: gauranggroups on May 29, 2011, 01:21:58 AM
This is really a nice post from Virinchi. But people have taken it in other sense and started spitting fire on God. God has clearly given us the guidelines of how to live in this world. After we breaking all the rules and after accumulating lots of Negative Karma, we can\'t blame God for that. After doing all sins, if we go and surrender to god finally, if God is giving all the benefits it\'ll become like our Indian Cinema. God is not a human to bribe and escape. There\'s a saying in Tamil which literally can be translated as \"One has to drink water if he has taken Salt\". So nobody can escape from Karma.

Then why do we need to pray the God? The answer is very simple. By praying the God, he\'ll reduce the impact of the Negativity and will give us some comfort. If someone has to get beatings, he\'ll get them. But by praying God, he can get enough power to withstand it and overcome the situation. If it\'s there in your fate that you won\'t be earning a single rupee in a particular year, you won\'t earn. But God will give you people around you like your brothers, sisters and friends who\'ll help you to pass out that phase of life.

Hence don\'t spit fire on God, guys. He needs to be rewarded for tolerating all of us. :lol::lol::lol:
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: orangeprince on May 29, 2011, 12:07:38 PM
But isn\'t god a supernatural force and haven\'t we reduced him to mere idol worship and pray for own selfish means? The idea of life is to understand the self and get out of this maya to realize the ultimate truth or call it god or whatever.Only then we would know the meaning of god and till then we would live in the manifestations of this maya, God how ever cleverly projected or reading scriptures or practicing yoga, tantra etc without realizing the self we would be only in maya.\"The only way of liberation is understanding the self\".
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Seetaram on May 29, 2011, 02:47:20 PM
why do you want to get liberated ? do you feel you\'re in jail now?
why cant you just enjoy the moment and live in present instead of thinking about after-death situation(which none of us have seen or remember) and suffer in present
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: orangeprince on May 29, 2011, 03:53:01 PM
liberation is not after death sir its the knowing of the self and the death of the \"I - ego\" so the real life begins.
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Seetaram on May 29, 2011, 11:04:55 PM
why should you kill your identity and then try to reach a blissful state without yourself?
Try to enjoy that state by being the same, as you\'re now
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Virinchi on May 30, 2011, 10:51:54 AM
Whats the point in getting bound by karma, relations, ego(I) and getting liberated after multiple lives, when we were actually free souls before taking birth on earth?
why should we be born into this karmic cycles.

Purpose of human life is not salvation.
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: orangeprince on May 30, 2011, 10:59:11 AM
So sir what\'s the purpose? Isn\'t the purpose of life to live peacefully with fellow humans and nature? But are we living peacefully within ourselves as well as in our relations? So without peace inside can there be peace outside?
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Virinchi on May 30, 2011, 11:26:08 AM
what is stopping you from not enjoying your present?
Is it comparision with present of other\'s ? comparision with your past? expecting much betterment in future?
Out of above 3, none are in your control to change.

you\'re like boy who walked out of his house clean(soul before first birth), started playing in mud(karmic cycles and rebirths) and cleaned himself before going back to bed.(salvation)

but only difference between you and that boy is that he was enjoying his play in mud.
Someone elder like you walking nearby, got some mud on his pants and kept worrying about cleaning till he reached home.

so who had fun and who missed fun here?
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: orangeprince on May 30, 2011, 04:09:16 PM
Sir, To enjoy the present the past must go and also there should be no fear about future isn\'t it? So with constant work pressure,  fear of security and the pressure to perform are we really enjoying the present or are we getting lost in the mad race? Enjoying not superficially but completely, its like \"when walking, be aware of walking\"- Buddha,But are we really aware of the present with the constant chatter in our head? (which constantly judges, or goes to past or thinks about future or modifies the present )
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Virinchi on May 30, 2011, 05:02:16 PM
so are you secured and did you win the race?
If yes, you don\'t need this topic.
If no, then you\'re wasting time worrying about things that are not in your control
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: orangeprince on May 30, 2011, 11:06:36 PM
Well i figured that there\'s no end to race as you win some and loose some and there\'s a new one again and i stopped in between and started thinking is this life? and trying to figure out since then sir and found out that we are just attracted to materialistic life which is just a momentary pleasure and trying to find if there is such a thing called \"Permanent Joy\'.
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: aastha93 on May 30, 2011, 11:59:48 PM
Well, if you broaden up your persceptive maybe you\'ll realise that this journey to find out \"permanent joy\" is a race in itself. You just wanted to shift patterns of your life from \"materialism\" to what you call \"sprituality\" or gaining knowledge about higher values of life.

Now no one really knows where we do we end up after several races of materialism, sprituality or whatever.

So its better to see through your sufferings as well as pleasures of your present life and know/follow as to where do they lead you next.

Ultimately, its destiny but without \"us\" (the performer of karma) destiny does not exist and without Destiny, we don\'t really get to the life path meant for us.

So just moving in synchrony with both makes the sense here and that \"synchronous journey\" maybe the key to your destination.
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: orangeprince on May 31, 2011, 08:41:16 AM
:) Thanks all for sharing your thoughts
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: devilz.paradiz on November 19, 2013, 10:33:34 PM
even astrologers cant predict an event with 100 percent accuracy....in my view god is ultimate and controls over all things that are present in this universe... we dont have any chance but only to surrender to the god almighty :)
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: gauranggroups on November 20, 2013, 01:53:26 AM
@devilz.paradiz,

Since you've spoken about surrendering to God. I'm giving this Sloka.

"Sarva dharmaan Parityajya Maam Ekam Saranam Vraja |
Aham tvaam Sarva Paapebhyo Mokshayishyaami Maa suchaha ||"


This is called 'Charama Sloka'. This is the 66th Sloka in the 18th Chapter of Bhagavad Gita. This is mentioned as the most secret knowledge of all that exists.

The meaning of this Sloka is "Give up all types of Dharmas (Dharma here means Religions and Practices to attain Salvation) and surrender yourself completely unto  me (Lord Krishna) alone. I'll save you from all types of sins and give you Salvation. Don't Worry."
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: devilz.paradiz on November 20, 2013, 11:16:45 AM
@gaurang
i have a doubt on salvation and soul liberation..
is lord krishna is only supreme w.r.t all the trilokadipathis..... is shiva not able to give salvation to us...
i have gone through some websites mainly iskcon related sites where they consider worshipping shiva leads a person to go to hell as shiva is tamsik in nature... and what about ista devatas that we see in our charts..... are they only able to show the path for liberation of soul... ??
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: gauranggroups on November 20, 2013, 05:52:06 PM
@devilz.paradiz,

Since you've addressed me directly and had questioned, I'm answering you. Normally, I won't answer questions like this as it may create unnecessary arguments and debates between many people here. Everyone will have their own beliefs and they'll have their own justifications for that too.

There's only one 'God' and that's called 'Bramham' or 'Parabramham' or 'Paramatma'. As per our Shastras, it's name is 'Narayana' or 'Krishna' or 'Ishwara' and from him only the trinity of 'Bramha', 'Vishnu' and 'Shiva' got expanded. So it's more like three different angles / images of the same source. For the purpose of material manifestation, the trinity have taken three different modes, i.e Rajas (Mode of Passion), Sattvam (Mode of Goodness) and Tamas (Mode of Ignorance). Hence people belonging to that mode will take interest and approach the God according to that mode. People belonging to each mode will consider their 'Murthy' as the superior and the other two inferior.
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: gauranggroups on November 20, 2013, 05:53:03 PM
Continuing the above reply....

'Salvation' or 'Soul Liberation' is nothing but leaving this material world with cycle of Birth and Death and reach that 'Bramham'. So the destination is one, but there are 3 major routes for that same destination. Those routes are called as 'Siddhantas' (Philosophy). They are Advaita, Dwaita and Visishtadvaita. Sri Adi Sankara, Sri Madvachariar and Sri Ramanujachariar were the three main Gurus respectively of those Siddhantas, who revived Hinduism in the medieval period. People can choose any of these Siddhantas according to their tastes.

I'm always interested in exploring and knowing about all these things. Hence I've explored ISKCON too along with others. Their siddhanta is 'Visishtadvaita'. They don't have any separate Sacred Books like some other Spiritual / Yoga movements. They're also following the same Shastras. Since ISKCON is inclined towards 'Sattva Guna', they'll prefer 'Vishnu' and 'Vishnu tattvas' over others. That's what I've explained in the 2nd para.

Hence as per any scriptures (ISKCON scriptures included), there's no such thing as if we worship Shiva, we'll go to hell and all. It's simply few people there who are posting such untrue things. Again as I said in my first para, each and every person will have their own opinion and interest. That's what they're expressing in such sites and blogs. Hence if you have more affinity towards 'Lord Shiva', worship him with full devotion. No need to have any second thought about it. Personally, I like 'Lord Shiva' very much. Hence most of my Profile Pictures would be either 'Lord Shiva' or 'Harihara'.

Ishta Devata worship is for material desires. If you want any materialistic benefits, your Ishta Devata will be more favorable to you than other Devatas. But they're not for 'Salvation'.
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: gauranggroups on November 20, 2013, 06:02:54 PM
You may have a doubt that if all the three trinities are from the same source, why Vishnu and Shiva are considered superior by many people and why not Bramha by any. There's a reason for that too. 'Bramha' is not a particular person, it's a post like 'Indra'. 'Bramha' is the highest position an 'Atma' / 'Jivatma' can attain. An 'Atma' can't become a 'Vishnu' or 'Shiva' as they're not posts. But with sincere devotion, we can reach their abodes.
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: devilz.paradiz on November 20, 2013, 08:42:01 PM
Thankyou sir for shedding some light on this topic.... as i was searching for related topics i came by an intresting site giving some info on evolution of universe ... and it can be clearly said from our ancient scriptures that these cool guys  ;) help out each other like Lord Rama doing abhishekam to Sivalingam in rameshwaram and Lord Vishnu helping Shiva in some occasions ...btw i like both of them infact i do chant mrutyujaya mathram and Vishnu sahasranamam daily as well :)

https://sivapurana.blogspot.in/2009/05/evolution-of-universe.html
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: devilz.paradiz on November 20, 2013, 10:00:24 PM
and btw why population is increasing instead of decreasing...especially India with estimates of becoming most populous country in the world by 2025... :D
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: gauranggroups on November 20, 2013, 11:53:38 PM
 ;D Population of 'Atmas' are not increasing. It's only the population of human beings are increasing by decreasing the population of other living beings like animals, birds, trees, plants and herbs and hence resulting in imbalance. This will keep going on and on, which will eventually result in 'Maha Pralaya'.
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: gauranggroups on November 21, 2013, 12:12:27 AM
Stop reading the Shastras from these sites and blogs. If you wanna learn Shastras, go get some books that are written by some good Gurus who are from some good 'Guru Parampara'. Try to read books and commentaries that are written by 'Adi Sankara' or 'Ramanuja' or 'Madvachariya' or 'Chaitanya Maha Prabhu'. Don't read books from unknown sources as they'll easily misguide you.

Thankyou sir for shedding some light on this topic.... as i was searching for related topics i came by an intresting site giving some info on evolution of universe ... and it can be clearly said from our ancient scriptures that these cool guys  ;) help out each other like Lord Rama doing abhishekam to Sivalingam in rameshwaram and Lord Vishnu helping Shiva in some occasions ...btw i like both of them infact i do chant mrutyujaya mathram and Vishnu sahasranamam daily as well :)

https://sivapurana.blogspot.in/2009/05/evolution-of-universe.html
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: kumara36 on August 20, 2014, 07:10:19 PM
This is fact.

Whether we pray to god or not, whether we perform remedies like wearing gemstones, crystal healing, reiki, chanting mantras etc, karma will give us what it has to, or rather what we deserve.


This is very true & hats off for the great idea!  :)
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: msrhprasad on March 01, 2015, 04:57:44 AM
Karma....Billgates is not doing any Maa Lakshmi pooja...he is richest person in the world.
and Sir Einstein, did not do any Maa Saraswathi pooja ...he was Genius...
this is their poorva punya....?
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: msrhprasad on March 01, 2015, 05:10:57 AM
Dear Mr.Virinchi,
Fortunately, i have read it just now time is 5.01a.m, every one should be realized it incl.me....its a fact...
but one doubt,
now a days almost all are performing poojas,homas,visiting temples...all are this only for their mental satisfaction only?
peak stage in devotion / surrender to the god 100%..can we see such people in these days?
and one final doubt
if a person reaches peak stage in devotion, even though
will he ask to the God, resolve his problems related to materialistic i.e financial problems/job/house/health etc.,
or
pray for Moksha?
Sincere regards,

This is fact.

Whether we pray to god or not, whether we perform remedies like wearing gemstones, crystal healing, reiki, chanting mantras etc, karma will give us what it has to, or rather what we deserve......

Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: pallavi on March 11, 2015, 05:08:15 PM
If you are still thinking that money=punya, then nobody can help
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Chirag Gupta on March 24, 2015, 05:25:24 PM
beautifully explained by you vrinchi ji ! thanks for such an article :)
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: sourav123 on April 29, 2015, 05:03:42 PM
But my question is why that we did take our very first birth? to play in the mud  means to manifest our desire? What force a free soul to take very first birth on this solar system. Please enlighten  :-[ :-X
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Virinchi on May 01, 2015, 02:13:08 PM
It (time) never began (anaadi = an(no) + aadi (begining) ) and will never end (ananth = an (no) + antha(end) ).
Only because you feel that few events have manifested by time, you think that it might have started somewhere.
You will understand this only if you have experienced timelessness at some stage

For everyone who didnt understand the above, the only reality is present and try to Live the Moment, rather than think about past (which you cannot change), or worry about future (which you do not know yet)
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Rajahans on May 01, 2015, 03:57:47 PM
@ Virinchi garu, 200% agree with your post.
Please suggest, what one can do after understanding that (past)... Is there any thing we as human can make (present) adjustments for future....
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: sourav123 on May 01, 2015, 07:51:46 PM
Virinchi Sir,
Great. That makes a lot of sense but does that mean there is no  concept like first birth or no such thing really exist and this is just another thought of our mind after accumulating so much  of information we are creating our own story. If yes than what is the real cause of being here, dealing with worldly affairs. How this all started.  Just curious :)
I can understand that there is nothing like time as this is all human mind made stuff. Which is nothing but just a thought/creation of human mind. There is only present moment.
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Bhavani on May 01, 2015, 09:41:36 PM
When you understood that it never started  then why do you ask when it started ?
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Apparao on August 30, 2015, 07:11:58 PM
Karma itself takes entire time and God is left with none to come next....
In other sense, God comes in the form of Karma first and then doesn't find enough time to come in original form
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Anoo on September 19, 2015, 10:12:44 PM
It (time) never began (anaadi = an(no) + aadi (begining) ) and will never end (ananth = an (no) + antha(end) ).

timelessness well explained !!
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: OMkaar on May 03, 2020, 09:43:17 PM
i'm yet to see divine intervention in karma. even god comes when its right time according to your karma
Title: karma comes first, God comes next
Post by: Siddu Sidharth on September 17, 2020, 05:34:29 AM
Very nice post,
Karma hits first and one should be careful in what they are doing!!